New York Mayor Bill de Blasio (R) and New York Governor Andrew Cuomo (C) stand in front of a mangled dumpster on September 18 while touring the site of an explosion that occurred on Saturday night in the Chelsea neighborhood of New York City. The explosion in a construction dumpster that injured 29 people is being labeled an "intentional act."

New York Mayor Bill de Blasio (R) and New York Governor Andrew Cuomo (C) stand in front of a mangled dumpster on September 18 while touring the site of an explosion that occurred on Saturday night in the Chelsea neighborhood of New York City. The explosion in a construction dumpster that injured 29 people is being labeled an "intentional act."

The latest on the bomb investigation in New York City and New Jersey and the stabbings at a Minnesota mall as possible acts of terrorism.

Guests

  • Peter Bergen CNN's national security analyst; vice president and director of the international security program at New America; author of a new book, "United States of Jihad: Investigating America's Homegrown Terrorists"

Transcript

  • 10:06:54

    MS. MICHEL MARTINThank you for joining us. I'm Michel Martin of NPR sitting in for Diane Rehm. One week from today, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump will square off in what some are saying could be the most watched presidential debate in history. National polls show a dead heat between Clinton and Trump, making the stakes even higher.

  • 10:07:12

    MS. MICHEL MARTINJoining me in the studio to preview the first presidential debate of the season, which issues will be discussed and how it might affect the rest of the race, Frank Sesno of the George Washington University School of Media and Public Affairs, Perry Bacon of NBC News, Elizabeth Sherman of American University and Clarence Lusane of Howard University.

  • 10:07:30

    MS. MICHEL MARTINLater on in the program, we expect to hear from the Libertarian party's nominee for president, Gary Johnson. We also hope to hear from Green Party nominee, Jill Stein, and get their reaction to being left out of the debate next Monday. But we want to take a few minutes to talk about the news of the weekend. As you must know by now, there were improvised explosive devices found in New York. A bomb went off in New York.

  • 10:07:58

    MS. MICHEL MARTINAnother device did not explode. There was another incident in New Jersey. We wanted to talk about this. And also a stabbing incident in Minnesota. We wanted to talk about all of this with Peter Bergen. He is CNN's national security analyst and a vice president and director of the International Security Program at New America. He's also the author of a new book, "United States of Jihad: Investigating America's Home Grown Terrorists."

  • 10:08:20

    MS. MICHEL MARTINWe thought his expertise would be helpful at this moment. Peter Bergen, are you with us?

  • 10:08:26

    MR. PETER BERGENI am.

  • 10:08:26

    MARTINWelcome back to "The Diane Rehm Show." Thanks for joining us. Now, the FBI announced this morning it's looking for a person of interest in connection with the bombings in New York City this weekend. What can you tell us about this person?

  • 10:08:37

    BERGENWell, I mean, what's fascinating about him is that he fits a profile of so many of the terrorists, jihadi terrorists we've seen in the United States since 9/11. He's an American citizen and despite all the political rhetoric and it's relevant discussion about the debates, you know, we are not -- I looked at 360 jihadi terrorism case since 9/11, some were relatively trivial, some very serious, but, you know, overwhelmingly, these are American citizens or residents, legal permanent residents who are involved in these cases.

  • 10:09:09

    BERGENThey're not refugees. They're not recent immigrants. They're not foreigners and so just on a factual basis, much of the sort political rhetoric around this issue has been, you know, basically off. And so Rahimi, the person of interest in this probe, is an Afghan who was -- he's a naturalized American citizen. He appears to be from -- he may have grown up in the New Jersey area. It's not clear. But he's also reminiscent very of Omar Mateen, who carried out the Orlando attack in June, killing 49, the most lethal terrorist attack in U.S. history since 9/11.

  • 10:09:45

    BERGENMateen was also an American citizen of Afghan descent, born in New York and so you know, this is -- this person, you know, fits this profile of ordinary Americans who turn to terrorism. They're not usually -- invariably, they're not trained overseas. They're radicalizing here. We still don't know a lot about this.

  • 10:10:08

    MARTINCan you draw any inference, Peter, from the technique that was used here? And obviously, one of the things that drew, I think, a lot of people's attention initially was the fact that this was a pressure cooker, at least that's what were found in New York and that is obviously the technique that was used at the Boston Marathon bombing. Is there anything that draws your attention about this?

  • 10:10:27

    BERGENWell, I think it's a very close match to the Boston Marathon bomb and therefore something you could pick up reading "Inspire" magazine, which is an al-Qaida magazine published from Yemen, published, in fact, by two American citizens, (word?) Samir Khan and Anwar Awlaki. And, you know, the point about this magazine, it's all in English, very colloquial English and, unfortunately, you know, the very name of the magazine, "Inspire," it was designed to inspire these kinds of attacks and also facilitate them with recipes that people follow.

  • 10:10:59

    BERGENNow, you know, you can also find these kind of bomb-making recipes in other places that aren't necessarily in jihadi propaganda, but it does, you know, I mean, it's interesting that there is a close match between the kind of methodology of the bombs.

  • 10:11:13

    MARTINYou know, it's interesting, Peter, that ISIS has claimed responsibility for the knife attack in a Minneapolis mall, the man who stabbed nine people at a Minnesota mall Saturday who was shot dead by an off duty police officer, he was described by this ISIS-linked news agency as a soldier of the Islamic State. Members of the Somali-American community have told the members of the media that they believe this is a member of their community. What should we draw from that?

  • 10:11:40

    BERGENWell, nothing, because ISIS didn't know until two hours ago that the perpetrator of this attack was a Muslim American. They knew from the get-go that the person who conducted the Minnesota attack shouted "Allah Akbar," asked potential victims if they were Muslim and, you know, he has -- this guy has no connection with ISIS, other than being aspirational, perhaps. And ISIS has adopted these aspirational attackers in the past. We saw that in the Nice attack in France where there was no command or control by ISIS of the attack which killed 84, but ISIS quickly adopted this guy and used very similar terminology, saying he was "a soldier of the caliphate."

  • 10:12:20

    BERGENAnd I would anticipate that we'll hear something ISIS in the next 24 hours saying that this Afghan American is a soldier of the caliphate, but they didn't know, you know, it wasn't clear until two hours ago, at least publically, what the motivation of the attacker in Chelsea was. Could it have been leftist? Could it have been, you know, Neo-Nazis? Could it -- we just didn't know. Now, we do and I would anticipate ISIS will claim some kind of ownership of this probably soon.

  • 10:12:45

    MARTINPeter, before we let you go, and thank you for joining us this morning, is there anything else that you think we should be thinking about at a time like this? Obviously, this is a challenge for political leadership. This is a challenge for people in communities where they might be concerned that, you know, members of the community's family members are attracted to this. But what else should we be thinking about right now?

  • 10:13:04

    BERGENWell, you know, the FBI did a study of 80 cases similar to this and what they found was very interesting. The term of art is leakage, which is people usually tell somebody about their plans and in these cases, they found the people with the most useful information were the least likely to come forward. So peers were the least likely to come forward, but usually knew the most information. Strangers are the most likely to come forward and they have the least useful information.

  • 10:13:29

    BERGENSo as we look into this case, we'll see, I'm sure, that he told somebody that he was planning something and that people in his family may have been aware of radicalization, but not actually a plan. And what that boils down to is, you know, the people that we need to enlist here and not alienate are members of the Muslim American community who may be seeing signs of radicalization or even action.

  • 10:13:53

    BERGENAnd so, you know, we want to make sure -- and the Muslim American community has stepped up to the plate time and time again to draw attention to these kinds of militants in their midst, but often, you know, somebody gets through. And unfortunately, in this case, somebody got through.

  • 10:14:09

    MARTINThat's Peter Bergen. He's CNN's national security analyst, the vice president and director of the International Security Program at New America. He's the author, most recently, of "United States of Jihad: Investigating America's Home Grown Terrorists." Peter, thanks so much for speaking with us.

  • 10:14:22

    BERGENThank you.

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